Comment Highlights for Week of July 17, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
Quincy left this comment on my post “Why keep the worship service?“:
As far as the traditional weekly worship/sermon service, I don’t see any need to keep it going. I believe the smaller group setting and daily shared life should be the focus. I do believe that larger gatherings are important, but shouldn’t be the focus and shouldn’t necessarily happen as often as they typically do now or even with the same structure.
It’s too easy to get lost and forgotten in huge groups, especially when everyone is focused on one person or one small team of people doing all the ministry.
John left this comment on the post “Guest Blogger: Hospitality and the Life of the New Testament Churches“:
I love it! Thank you, Art. We have “thrown our lives away” for the very purposes you have described. We encounter the same barriers and breakthroughs described above.
Just this morning my wife and I lay in bed agonizing over it- “God everyone we care about seems to be rejecting this way of life”. We can feel like Amish without the community but all the ostracization. Sometimes we think we should literally become Amish.
But we press on trying to be open in a closed society, looking for opportunity to love those who are feeling unloved…thanks for the encouragement that there are others who are like-minded!!!
Nick left this comment on my post “That’s not like any conference I’ve ever attended“:
This is a great conference! I attended it last year. Its put together by Frank Viola, Milt Rodriguez and Alan Levine. They are Organic Church practitioners. They run it every year in Orlando in July and this year it was run for the first time in Switzerland as well. I would recommend it highly for anyone who is interested in moving on from the same old tired and unbiblical institutional church. Its very practical and last year we even had the brothers and sisters from an organic church in Gainesville come and share – it was deeply inspiring.
Todd left this comment on my post “Music divides the church“:
Great post. Is the bottom line being fully “surrendered and mature” to experience the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit no matter what, how, with whom, where, etc.? I say it’s a lifelong area for growth and loving humility. Other “dividers” and distractions come to mind… – We songs/I and Me songs, formal/casual dress, children’s programs, mostly young people/mostly old people, Calvinist/Arminian, Bible version used, pews/folding chairs, hymnals/lyrics on screen, offering/no offering taken, Communion in service/only in small groups, live teacher/video, etc., etc., etc.
Comment Highlights for Week of July 10, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
While there were several great comments on many of my posts, today I only want to highlight a few of the comments from post “Looking for the ‘Worship Service’.”
Why only highlight the comments on this post? Well, first because it’s my blog, and that’s what I want to do. But second, and seriously, because I appreciated the discussion that took place in those comments.
Art said in one comment (among many great comments he left on this post and other posts):
Since both the phrase “worship service” and the way we understand and define this term today are extra-biblical and don’t even come close to the NT meaning and purpose of assembling together, I’d ditch the term altogether.
If it was a biblical term, it might be worth trying to redeem it and clarify its biblical meaning. But as it is, it only continues a bunch of distracting errors and confusion among the saints.
So if we a) intentional seek multiple and varied voices in the “worship service” (i.e. more than one person and not the same people each week) and b) emphasize fellowship outside of the Sunday morning meeting, we can see some positives coming out of the traditional “worship service”. The problem is that not many people see that there is a problem with the “worship service” in the first place.
Dori said this in a comment:
My husband and I often are one anothering each other (duh ..lol) and we find ourselves encouraging and exhorting and comforting each other by sharing a scripture or song that was put on our hearts that day. When we come together each has something from the Lord to share after we have listened to each other. There is spontaneous communication that happens in family that seems to be a model of “worship service”.
And Chris offered a different perspective in this comment:
I think there’s a semantic issue with saying that “building one another up” is not occurring during a “worship service.” If I’m singing and praying to God with you and others around me, that is tremendously edifying! I am definitely “built up” through such experiences. I think all you can say is that these are not the only activities that should happen during a gathering. “Edification” has to happen in other, more direct personal ways as well.
Make sure to check out these comments and the other great comments in the discussion in that post.
Comment Highlights for Week of July 3, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
Arthur left this comment on my post “Red, White, and Blue… and Jesus, too“:
Freedom, true freedom, was not won at the end of the barrel of a gun. It was won by the death of One on the cross. The Christian imprisoned and tortured for his faith in China is far freer than an American living amidst the luxury of this land who doesn’t know Christ.
Swanny left this comment on my post “Reducing discipleship to a series of classes“:
After taking a 2-year discipleship class with about 12 men at the church I used to attend, and then taking another 2-years to teach the class to another group of 11 men.. to this day I do not even know them, I do not even know their families. It is so sad.
After many times of effort to break the surface and really get to know them.. failure. I think it would be easier to get into Fort Knox here in KY and steal all the gold then it would be to share all of our struggles together.
Cindy left this comment on my post “Is ‘church’ missing something? Don’t change; just add something else“:
The church we recently left had about 5 levels of small groups. The system was so confusing we never were able to join a group. I think someone must have been reading every book on small groups out there and then just as you say adding a group-type every time he read about another style.
But small groups aside I think this idea of “adding” is something well worth exploring in all of its manifestations.
And, I really appreciated Doug answering some of my questions in the same post. Here’s one of those comments:
YOU ASKED: “How do you (and others) communicate to people that the gathering of 100 is not necessary?”
We communicate it through deed and action – but we don’t come out and say it say it – not yet. We feel that it’s best to continue to lead the 100 down the path and make slow/gentle adjustments along the way, These people have moved from a rubber-stamp type charismatic church to where they are today, Not even all the elders definitively see that the large gathering is not needful. So we move on – ever pressing toward the mark. in time, we are certain that God will reveal it in them and the next move will be effortless and empowered.
Comment Highlights for Week of June 26, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
Arthur left this comment on my post “No, we can’t just get along“:
What is a “false teaching”? There was a time when I would have inclulded “Arminianism”, dispensationalism and infant baptism in that category. I still diasgree with all three of those but do they rise to the level of false teaching? I certainly wouldn’t let someone baptize my unregenerate child for the sake of unity but I wouldn’t see them baptizing their infant children as reason to break fellowship, even if I think they were wrong to do so. I spent the last couple of years in Michigan in a group that held more or less to a dispensational hermeneutic, which I likewise disagree with but we still had wonderful fellowship with them.
So what then? Certainly any teaching that denies the Gospel by either subtracting from it or adding to it rises to the level of false teaching. What about presuming to speak for God where He has not spoken (false prophecy?) This is a tough one.
Andy left this comment on my post “Pooling resources for general church purposes?”
I came across this passage earlier today and have been thinking of it in light of this post. It’s from 1 Timothy:
“If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows.” (1Ti 5:16 ESV)
It seems to go along with some of what you have been saying – that resources were pooled mainly to help those who were in need. But it seems also that this might have a further nuance: don’t make the church (as a collective) meet the needs of your own relatives if you have the means to do so yourself. That seems to be a theme of 1 Tim 5 in general.
I really appreciated this comment by Dave that he left on my post “Four Views: Christians Participating in Horror Genres – Will you help?”
[E]ven though this was my first exposure to your site, this post has actually prompted me to try and get some fellow Christian film geeks together and record a discussion about being a film geek and how that interacts with our faith across multiple genres. I don’t even have any idea where I’ll post it yet, but thanks for the inspiration sir!
Finally, Art left this comment on my post “Which is important for the church: edification or mission?”
I’m not sure it is possible to do a biblical job of either if we aren’t seeing both as inter-related.
Much of our mission is dependent on lives that bespeak of the glory and grace of God. In a sense, we ARE the message, and that message is muddie when we are living in the flesh and for selfish purposes. When we are yielding ourselves more and more to serve God as living sacrifices and withdraw from the course of this world with its self-centered values and goals, His light is shed forth (see I Thess 1).
Our mutual edification prepares us to BE the evident work of God in our neighborhoods and workplaces and in the everydayness of living. And, as Alan aluded, harnessed together in serving one another and in serving those outside the faith is one of the key ways we continue to edify one another in ways that meetings alone cannot.
It is the inworking and outworking of our faith in action, together. I love the phrase, faith which worketh by love -Gal 5:6
I can’t wait to read the great comments next week!
Comment Highlights for Week of June 19, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
This is part of the comment that Hutch left on my post “Reply: Hypothetical Situation… what do you think?“:
1. a) The gospel of Christ, who He is and what He did through His life and on the cross. b) That those who are in Christ are indwelt by the Counselor/Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ who will teach them, lead them into all truth and bring to remembrance all that Jesus said. c) What Jesus commanded/taught-love God, neighbor, brother and enemy etc. d) That they are gifted by the Holy Spirit to build each other up and teach each other as led by the Holy Spirit. e) How to listen to Christ and hear from Him through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
Jen left this comment on my post “Did someone forget to pass the offering plate?“:
So, as a recovering church book keeper this is a subject that still brings me sadness, anger, and grief.
For 4 years I worked at a church that spent over 90% internally; I saw things that greatly troubled me. When I would bring them to the attention of our administrative pastor, I was told “that’s just ministry”. Finally, I could take it no more; I put in my resignation and started attending a home church/home fellowship.
God has revolutionized how we tithe; it may be a waitress who is a single mom that we give $20 to on a $20 bill. It may be buying fair trade cerified food, clothing, whatever. It may be helping a homeless person, or whatever.
Anyways, my heart still breaks over the self absorption of many churches in America. This is a great blog post for all of us to ponder.
Here is part of the comment that Aussie John left on my post “Refusing to trust what we think we understand“:
Thank you for bringing this matter to the fore.
You state the popular understanding of faith most excellently, “Today, many have reduced faith to a series of statements or a theological doctrine. Christians often trust what they can explain or codify. In other words, they are leaning on their own theological understanding. They create a faith that is reasonable and logical.”
The faith, of which you speak, is a work of God in us. We cannot generate faith in ourselves!
Finally, Jon left this comment on my post “Practical Steps Toward Missional Living“:
Great stuff! Thanks for the tangibles…the missional conversation often lacks in the practicals.
Comment Highlights for Week of June 12, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
First, thank you everyone for your comments and prayers for my friend Gary. I told you part of his story in my post “My friend is missing. Please pray for him and his family.”
I want to point out this great comment by Arthur that he left on Bobby’s guest post “Guest Blogger: A simple post about simple church“:
Ah patience! Once we start to get free of traditionalism and institutionalism, we want everyone to jump on board but it takes times, patience and trust. That can be so hard! When we are untethered from the familiar, it can feel like we are always beset by uncertainty. That is why I am so blessed by guys like Bobby who, at least electronically, are sharing the journey and supporting me. God is doing great things in His church, I pray we all are patient as we work under His direction.
Then, Joe left this comment on my post “What does it mean to lead among the church?“:
I believe that we as followers are also at blame because we choose to follow position and personality rather than people with scriptural leadership qualities. We want our ears to be tickled and to see the flash over serving and living a quiet life of godliness. Thoughts?
Timmy left this comment on the same post:
In my understanding, the church is a spiritual family. There will always be those in a family who are older spiritually, but the goal is for everyone to become spiritually mature and become a spiritual parent for others. In reality, the maturity of an elder that is laid out in I Timothy 3 and Titus 1 is the character that every believer should grow into over time. When Paul told Titus to go back to the cities where they had started churches and recognize elders, it was to recognize the work that the Holy Spirit had already done in the lives of those men who had pursued God more wholeheartedly, and who had thus grown to maturity more quickly. The people in the church who had already been around these men would realize they were examples and that they were already doing the work of especially caring for the believers. The benefit of recognition is particularly for the new people that become a part of a church family, so that as Alan stated they would know whose example to follow. It does really seem clear as you read the epistles that the most important role of an elder is to be an example. I like how Paul told the Thessalonians- ” We were an example for you. You followed our example, and now you have become an example for others.”
Finally, you should definitely read this comment by Laura, and, yes, it’s on the same post. Here is part of her comment:
The call to be new creations does not make you a leader, it is for all; I believe God is longing for us to have the revelation of being a new creation (not head knowledge). Then we will enter into and see the ministry of the ‘sons’ of God in this world, living from the new as Jesus (and Paul) did; not dragging around our old sins/nature/hang ups/baggage, but leaving them in the grave, and doing greater things than even Jesus did. A kingdom of new creations here in the world…kings and priests (kjv). I continually enter into the new but I reject the label of leader …yuck unless you name every child of God a ‘king’ as Paul has.
Comment Highlights for Week of June 5, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
First, this was a great comment by ToscaSac on my post “Raising missional homeschooled children“:
I stared off as a secular homeschooler. When I returned to faith we had plenty of unsaved connections in the local homeschooling world. I have never really connected with the Christian homeschoolers. They were usually big on curriculum and we were happily unschooling.
My goal was never to homeschool for isolation purposes. I know God wants us to be plugging in and rubbing shoulders with the culture. How else can we reach them?
We lost our apartment and had to move back home with my parents. Right across the street new neighbors moved in. Two lesbian moms with three or four little kids. They were younger than my daughter at the time but of course she was interested in connecting with them. The couple were delighted to have her come by.
I saw it as a big sign from God “This is your mission field, bloom and blossom where you are planted. You cannot pull away into insulated isolation.” At the same time a more radical alternative family had joined my homeschooling support group. The Christians turned tail and RAN. It was so sad.
My daughter and I befriended the family and they are serving God now six years later. I do not think it is because of us. I do know we were there to watch unlike the Christians who assumed it was contagious.
Art left several good comments this week. I’ll highlight this comment on Arthur’s guest post called “Guest Blogger: Adoption lived out in the church“:
For one thing, if we were having a long discussion over coffee (or beer), we might start by listing what we consider the barriers among the saints in our cities. I’d ask and consider further if what we initially come up with were the real barriers, or is there something deeper/hidden/different behind the facade? What REALLY divides us?
Personally, I’m not convinced theological issues are the real sticking point. They may be a tool, but they hardly seem the motivations for most (few can explain the positions they advocate adequately, nor have most thought through questions raised by these positions). They may be passionate about the issues, but they are not knowledgeable about them. It seems their fervor may have a different source.
As humans, we might also wonder why there are things that divide humanity, things like rascism, class, power, position, wealth and education. Frankly, the sources of these difficult issues may likely be the same root causes of division we will discover within the church, minus the veneer of god-speak to make our divisions and fightings and competitions seem noble.
Real solutions are likely to be profoundly harder to live out than they are to list. Society has aptly demonstrated they are not capable of solving the divisions that ravage people. For that matter, so have we Christians.
Scott (along with several other people) left great comments on my post “Please take anything from the refrigerator.” Here is Scott’s comment:
Refrigerator rights are something I think my pastor talked about in the past. I think for many people it is a sacred space, for whatever reason. Who you give (or don’t give) those rights to says a lot.
Along the same lines, we have friends that don’t knock. If the door is unlocked they are expected to just some in. We’re family and our home really is their home.
Finally, I was really encouraged by this comment from Aussie John on my post “Will you help me develop an ecclesiology FAQ?“:
How good it is to read one, who seeks to disciple others, making an admission such as that, suggesting that being a disciple of Christ, no matter what position in ministry, entails continual development, and even, dare I say it, changing ones mind on some matters, rather than having ones thoughts set in concrete which set hard soon after hearing the Good news.
Comment Highlights for Week of May 29, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
Once again, make sure you read the comments from the guest post last week titled “Guest Blogger: Not salary but support.” Several people ask questions, and Doug, the author, responds.
John left a great comment on my post “Jeremy’s thoughts on ‘leaving the pastorate’.” Here is part of John’s comment:
I am reading a book that, among other things, talks of the largest numerical growth of Christians in history: aproximately 80 million in China, from the beginning of communist rule til now. Almost all are house churches with 20 or fewer members and almost all lacking seminary educated clergy. While I greatly value education, and learn a lot from those trained in original langusges and ministry, I stand in awe of how God moves in the world. While most of us take a career path approach to life and ministry, God continues break our views of how things ought to be done. We daily choose to follow Him wherever He leads, or choose to follow the path to our definition of success. I pray I’ll follow His leading and not the world’s view of success.
Another Jon left a very good comment on my post “The Acts of Jesus Christ through his Disciples.” Here is part of Jon’s comment:
Looking at the book in this light, I’d say that this deals a bit of a death-blow to those who would say that the book of Acts is descriptive narrative of what happened then, but not normative (or even really possible) for today. Usually this is used by people trying to explain why we shouldn’t read Acts and expect to see the miraculous stuff, usually explaining that this is the story of the apostles, and since we’re not apostles, we shouldn’t expect any of that today.
But if Acts is “Acts of Jesus Christ through His Disciples” and Jesus Christ really is the same yesterday, today and forever, then that stuff becomes gloriously possible. Maybe not normative (as in miracle round every corner), but as we learn to see how Jesus is working through us, we can expect some amazing wonderful stuff in our lives, churches and stories too!
And, to round out the “Johns,” I appreciate this comment by Aussie John on my post “A criterion, a treasure, an assumption, and a broken heart“:
Ross is correct,”Christians should be making disciples”. Absolutely, but only genuine disciples WILL make disciples!
Joel is very privileged. Let brotherly love continue.Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares, Heb.13:1-2
Eric’s assumption is vital as well as valid.
Arthur has nailed it in one.
Finally, don’t miss the discussion between Charles and me in the comments of my post “The Disappearance of the Twelve in Acts 6-9.”
Comment Highlights for Week of May 22, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
First, I hope you didn’t miss the great conversation on “Guest Post: A Focus on Catholic Ecclesiology.” I’ve talked with Brian (the author of the post and many of the comments), and he enjoyed the discussion as much as I did.
John left this great comment on my post “Numbing our souls with church activities“:
it seems most churches equate more programs and activities with a vibrant and growing church. But what I have found in reality is that the same 10% of people come to most or all of those activities. We (me included) measured my spiritual maturity with the amount of church activities I attended. I equated spiritual growth with another church program. I may not be sharing Christ with my neighbor, but I’m at church every time the door is open! I agree with you that ‘less is more’. While meeting and interacting with other believers is very important, so is the rest of our Christian walk, like spending time with God, raising a family, living in my community, and working.
I think, though, that the congregation can insist that the staff keep adding programs since it looks like we’re growing if we do more things. This puts unnecessary and unrealistic pressures on the staff. We are our own worst enemies sometimes.
Swanny left this comment in response to a question (in another comment) that I asked him (about reasons for leaving the institutional church) on my post “Growing past church programs and activities is not easy“:
Many others, but here are the big 3
1. The shallowness of the people attending, no fruit being seen as a body of believers. This one you just wrote about in this post.
2. The money being spent in overhead when people are in need all over the world, and in our own community. Is all of the cost of building or even a campus needed? I know this debate is as old as dirt, but I felt led to be a bit more frugal and wise in the way I help others.
3. As I took and taught a 2 year discipleship study, I learned much more about the New Testament church, and church structure, which showed me that Christ is the head of His Church and how we are The Bride (an organism, not an organization)
Beth left this comment in response to my post “Serving people even when they reject us“:
SO GOOD! And so true! If Jesus had only served those who responded the “right” way then not many would have had his touch after all. I know within myself I sometimes have a debate of whether I reach out to someone or not based on perception of their response, etc but I always try to come back to the place of Jesus and his heart. Everyone has a story and they respond from that story and my only responsibility when Jesus calls me to serve is to obey him in it and trust that person and their response, or lack thereof, to him. He knows their story and I do not. And truthfully I don’t need to know their story to serve them and extend kindness and love to them. Thanks for sharing this lesson!
Comment Highlights for Week of May 15, 2011
As I mentioned in the first post in this series, I want to highlight some of the comments that have been left on my blog posts during the past week. Hopefully, this will give more visibility to some of the reasons that I love blogging – dialog and interaction.
John left this comment on my post “Guest Blogger: Not Alone in Feeling Alone“:
Thanks for this post brother. We left the institution after pastoring for 20 years and relocated. Efforts at simple church have ranged from visiting a house church headed by a megalomaniac, being told there was no room at the inn when inquiring about visiting another home group, and various attempts to go sit in a pew which induced *total boredom*. Efforts to connect with others re: planting something have not been fruitful. We do have limited fellowship with some here who are planted in the institution. It is FAR from where we want to be–living in an organic community. Jon’s words could very well be my own. Feeling alone and waiting…
Steve left this comment on the same post:
I hope this doesn’t come off as being semantic, but I acutally am alone in feeling alone. It’s true that I’m not the only one, and I know that there are many thousands of others out there, but I’m still alone. I think that knowing that there are many others like me but without the ability to do anything about it is even more frustrating.
___________My first three churches had great fellowship, despite fitting the “traditional” label. Every Sunday meant an entire day of fellowship (until midnight if you wanted). All that was necessary was to show up. Just that simple. There was not much hard work to do to accomplish this. Everybody simply expected that there would be comminity and there was. You didn’t even have to think about it. Families of all sizes and singles. Church leaders. We got together during the week, too. Yes, there was work in helping others that was hard, but community took nearly no effort. The reason I think is because it existed and I existed in the same place and time.
Beth left this great comment on my post “I need help serving my neighbor“:
For a short period of time there was a group of us from our church that would band together and go do things for people in our congregation. With one Grandma who is raising her twin grandchildren on her own we cleaned up her front and back yards, fixed her fence, and tore down a dangerous back deck and rebuilt a safe one. Another lady in our Body needed some painting done so we banded together and spent a whole day painting, and through that was able to replace one of her neighbor’s front door. We searched and prayed for other opportunities to just love and serve people but so many turned us down because they felt embarrassed or something! But the people we did serve were blessed and so were we! It was a beautiful thing to be a part of and witness. I’m still looking for those opportunities and now I just seek them out on my own and ask others to join in.
And David left this comment on my post “Can a traditional church allow more participation?“:
I would agree that the small group really is church. The large group is also an expression of church. I guess, technically, it would be more accurate to use the same language with the small group–it is also an expression of church. But, if I had to choose between the two, I would say that, for the very reason we are discussing here, biblically, the small group is more important than the big group.
As far as 1 Cor. 14:26 is concerned, I know this is a verse that you have thought about in depth, and that you also know a lot more Greek than I do. But I just went back and read a lot of English translations of this verse. The great majority use the word “when” instead of “whenever.” I am not sure, but the impression I get from this, is that the list of things that happens is descriptive, not prescriptive. In any case, if we want to make it prescriptive, then we would probably need to say that there should be tongues and interpretation of tongues in every church meeting. I does seem prescriptive that “everything should be done for edification.”
In any case, we don’t have a whole lot of descriptions in the NT of church meetings. I suppose you could say the meeting in Troas in Acts 20 is another example. You could argue that, due to the use of διαλέγομαι that the meeting was participative. But I don’t see the same elements as in 1 Cor. 14:26–i.e. no hymns, no revelation, no tongues, no interpretation of tongues–at least not specifically mentioned; just interactive teaching, led by Paul, and sharing in the Lord’s Supper. I guess you have the prayer meeting where the believers were gathered in the house of Mary, the mother of John Mark, praying for Peter, as well. But once again, the only activity specifically mentioned there is prayer. There are probably a few other examples as well, but those are the ones that come to mind. So, what I gather from this is, not every NT church meeting necessarily had to follow the format of 1 Cor 14:26. The important thing is that, in the ongoing life of the church, there was adequate opportunity for participation and “one another” ministry.