More questions about old men in the church…
Ross at “thejesusvirus” has written a very good post called “What is an Elder Really?”
In his post, Ross is investigating the user of the term “elder” in the New Testament, in the early church, and throughout church history. His goal is to examine the importance of elders in simple/organic churches today.
(Interesting, isn’t it? Since so many people say that simple/organic churches are not interested in elders…)
Ross begins his post with this:
The role of elders is crucial in organic church. However, the idea of what the word “elder†means has been so distorted by history that we need to clear up some misconceptions before we can even talk about what elders do and how they play an essential role in the Church. So this will be a brief, two part series. In this post, I’ll talk about how the word “elder†was used in the Early Church. In the next post, I’ll discuss the important role elders played and how they reproduced themselves organically.
Then, he concludes with this definition of “elder”:
An elder, then, is a more mature Christian. And such a mature Christian would use their maturity to serve others, coming from a position of humility and weakness, not from any position of apparent strength, title, power or positional authority. To do otherwise would be to set aside Jesus strict instructions about how “greater†(i.e. more mature) people were to behave.
What do you think about Ross’ definition?
Even more on disagreement and disunity
Brant at “Mornings with Brant” continues the ongoing discussion of disagreement and disunity in his post “What if We All Disagree on Stuff?”
Responding to my post “When Disagreement Lead to Disunity,” Brant writes:
Question: Â Where does it leave us, if people who belong to God disagree on something? Â What if it’s a BIG thing, not a little thing? Â What about Rob Bell? Â What about baptism? Â What about mega-church or simple-church? Â What about tithing? Â What about liberal vs. conservative? Â What about Calvinist vs. Whatever…?
What if we genuinely, deep-down, just plain can’t agree? Â Where does THAT leave us?
Read Brant’s post for his answer. It’s a great answer!
Is the church holding its breath? Here’s some encouragement to breathe in and breathe out.
Guy at “The M Blog” has written a very good post called “Ecclesiology shifts needed to get us back on track.”
The “shifts” that Guy mentions in his title come from Allan Karr a professor at the Denver Campus of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary – a sister seminary to the one where I work and study.
Karr presented his suggestions “needed to achieve a viable 21st Century ecclesiology” within a metaphor of breathing: breathing in and breathing out. Here are two examples:
1. Breathe in – From extrabiblical traditions to biblical minimums.
2. Breathe out – From institutional church-based to Kingdom of God based ecclesiology.
I think the idea of “biblical minimums” is very important. Too often, people add man-made ideas to what it means to be the church.
Jump over to Guy’s blog for the other 8 “shifts.” What do you think of Karr’s suggestions, and what do you think about his “breathing” metaphor?
Continuing the discussion on disagreement and disunity
I love it when my posts (or other posts for that matter) inspire other people to blog about the same topic.
Earlier this week, I wrote two posts on the topic of disagreement and disunity: “Disagreement is not Disunity” and “When Disagreements Lead to Disunity.”
At least two bloggers have picked up on that topic and continued the conversation.
Arthur at “The Voice of One Crying Out in Suburbia” writes in his post “Unity is not conformity“:
It is not only possible, it is absolutely necessary that we fellowship with people we disagree with on some issues. The only person I agree with 100% of the time is myself and sometimes I make pretty poor company even to me! The church is united by so many things, first and foremost the blood bought adoption by God. If God has chosen us and caused us to be born again and become part of His family, we need to be united with one another regardless of our differences. To do anything else is to tell God that perhaps He made a mistake in bringing those people into His family.
Joel at “Grace Roots” says that my posts are “timely” but doesn’t give details in his post “Disagreement and Disunity.” He writes:
It’s a fact that people are going to disagree on doctrines and theology. Does this mean that there has to be disunity? While we can remain convinced in our own individual consciences of what we believe, can we not also live “in harmony with one another and in harmony with Jesus Christ”?
Have I missed any posts on this important topic?
Thank you, Dave Black! I’m humbled, honored, and challenged.
On his “unter blog” (I hope I’m getting that right now), Dave Black mentioned me in a way that humbled me, honored, and challenged me. (See entry #3 from Wednesday, April 20, 2011 at 8:31 a.m.)
In that post, he copies a part of a forward that he’s writing for another blogger and fellow coworker with the saints in Ethiopia.
This is what he writes:
I am often asked for advice from pastors and seminarians about how to implement New Testament truth into the life of a local church. I usually refer them to members of their own generation. There are a handful of younger adults who seem to understand the church, our culture, and how to apply biblical truth to both. I expect writers like Eric Carpenter, Alan Knox, Arthur Sido, and Kevin Brown to be people who will help the Christian community find its way forward. These men are precious gifts from God, and their contributions to the church are greatly appreciated by their blog readers. They are engaged, informed, and ready and able to offer well-reasoned and biblical responses to the issues churches face today.
First, I am honored to be included in that company. I’m also humbled that God would choose to use me in the way that Dave mentions. And finally, I’m challenged at the prospect of helping today’s church.
But, I do see that this is how God is using me. I don’t know why, but I recognize it. I pray only that I would not get in his way.
This church is meeting for a real church service
Chris at “The Amplified Life” continues to tell us about their church’s plans to serve their community. The most recent post is called “5th Sunday is Coming.”
I linked to their “5th Sunday” plans a few weeks ago. They are planning to give up their “5th Sunday” church “worship services” in order to serve their community. Yes, I know that some churches are out and about in their neighborhoods serving all the time. But, I’m excited when I read about churches beginning to understand their responsibility to their neighbors.
Here is part of their plans:
So far we have four service areas for the day. First, we will be doing a litter pluck on the stretch of highway in our local community. Second, we will be doing a litter pluck in at a recreational area along the Delaware River (and this 5th Sunday is on Memorial Day weekend…there will be people present in the area–I wonder what God is going to do in that area?). Third, a few miles from our church there is a nursing home that we will visit and spend time with the the residents. I imagine a group of 30-40 people showing up to love on the elderly in the home and I cannot help but get excited! Finally, a smaller group will be be going to the home of a local widow to do some cleaning and yard maintenance.
I’m praying that this opportunity to give up their normal meeting in order to serve others will be the start of missional living for this church! I’m also praying that other churches see and follow their example. Finally, I’m praying that they are able to show their neighbors the love of God and introduce them to the good news of Jesus Christ!
Can we handle honesty in our song lyrics?
Dan at “The Ekklesia in Southern Maine” has written a great post called “More Honest Song Lyrics.”
In the post, Dan talks about Christian song lyrics – especially lyrics for “praise and worship” songs – that don’t always express what he is feeling or what he has experienced. (Yes, he knows that I know that singing is not about how we feel or what we’ve experienced, but we also can’t separate ourselves completely from background and mental/emotional state.)
Dan even offered us an example of a song with “more honest” lyrics from his perspective. I thought this stanza was especially good:
So I am trying to be “worshipful†here God
But I’m kinda worried about what these other people think of me
I don’t want them to think I look silly
But I don’t want them to think I’m worried about what they think
Should I raise my hands Jesus?
Maybe I should at least bounce around a little to the music
The final stanza is very good also!
A couple of years ago, I wrote a post along this same vein called “Singing Lies to God.” I wonder what would happened if we sang songs that truly expressed our hearts, our attitudes, our motives, and our desires, even when we were not “spiritual”… Sometimes I think secular music may be more honest than much of the music that’s called “Christian.”
Do we prefer our Jesus to stay in a manger instead of outside an empty tomb?
Ok, so the title of this post may remind some people of a particular scene from the movie Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby. But, that movie was not the inspiration. (However, as a point of trivia, did you know that I grew up and lived for 30 years only about an hour south of Talladega? And, I’ve never been to a NASCAR race.)
Instead, the inspiration came from Jeremy at “Til He Comes” and his post “Forget Christmas, It’s Easter.”
Jeremy points out the disparity in celebrating Christmas and Easter both in American culture and in the American church. Everyone loves to celebrate Christmas (for a month or more), but Easter seems to be an afterthought almost.
Of course, the real problem is not how we celebrate the “holidays” but what those holidays represent. As Jeremy says:
Did you ever realize that in Scripture, the birth of Jesus doesn’t really matter a whole lot? Oh sure, Matthew talks about it, and Luke gives it some room, but other than those two Gospels, it’s as if nobody cares about the birth of Jesus. No other author mentions the virgin birth. The star stops shining. The wise men disappear from the stage. Sure, the details of the birth of Jesus are critical, crucial, important, and necessary, but it still only gets a few short paragraphs in all of the New Testament. (Somewhere, I read the number of verses that talk about the birth of Jesus compared to the number of verses that talk about His resurrection, but I cannot find it right now. Anybody ever run across this?)
The resurrection of Jesus, however, is mentioned in all four Gospels, appears in nearly every chapter of Acts, and finds its way into the center of Paul’s thinking, Peter’s sermons, and John’s writings. It is almost as if the New Testament writers were saying, “The birth of Jesus? Meh…. But the resurrection of Jesus? Now that’s the good stuff!â€
So, what do you think? Do we focus on the birth of Jesus too much, and do we not focus on the resurrection of Jesus enough?
Three Reviews: Radical, Revise Us Again, and the Rabbit and the Elephant
I’ve recently read three book reviews that were very helpful.
Dan at “The Ekklesia in Southern Maine” wrote a review of David Platt’s book Radical in his post “Radical – book review.” I think Dan only found the book “radical” within a certain church context. He was also concerned about “secret church.”
Mark at “Experiencing Christ” wrote a review of Frank Viola’s book Revise Us Again in his post “Book Review: Revise Us Again by Frank Viola.” Mark found that this book followed the same patterns of Viola’s other books, and was challenged in many ways.
Eric at “A Pilgrim’s Progress” wrote a review of Tony and Felicity Dale’s book The Rabbit and the Elephant in his post “The Rabbit and the Elephant.” Eric appreciated their description of simple church and their focus on multiplication.
Of these three books, I’ve only read The Rabbit and the Elephant, which I reviewed in this post. I’m still trying to decide if I have time to read the other two books.
Have you read any of these books? What did you think about them? Helpful or not?
Preaching, Doctrine, and Church Buildings, but it’s not what you think
There have been some excellent blog posts recently. So many, in fact, that I have not been able to link to all of them. So, in this post, I’m going to link to three posts that I thought were outstanding.
First, Dan at “The Ekklesia in Southern Maine” writes about the “Dangers of Expository Preaching.” Dan is concerned that labels such as “expository preaching” may encourage people to “drop their guard” and think that everything that’s said comes from Scripture. That’s not always the case.
Next, Arthur at “The Voice of One Crying out in Suburbia” says that “Good doctrine is not enough.” He is concerned that many churches are focused on the content of their teaching, while those same churches are lacking in fellowship and mutual relationships. Yep, I talked to someone just recently who recognized that same problem in his church.
Finally, Jeremy at “Til He Comes” says that “Jesus has Left the Building.” He says that we have gone back to what “Jesus has obliterated.” It is interesting that Jesus said he came to destroy the temple, and yet many churches seem to focus on building theirs.
So, what do you think about these posts?